Litman: Yeah. But I hold out hope, again, that these Alien Enemies Act cases, given the administration basically thumbing their nose at so many different district courts … They basically had a presser in which they declared they were not abiding by the Supreme Court decision. Donald Trump has essentially admitted it in interview after interview, No, I haven’t asked President Bukele to return Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Sure, I could do it if I wanted to, but why would I? I think the combination of that coupled with the underlying claim of authority, the fact that they are deporting U.S. citizens coupled with the plummeting approval rating of the administration—I think all of that is creating the conditions that make it so much easier for the courts to rule against the administration on this case, on birthright citizenship.

Sargent: Well, I want to clarify for listeners what you’re talking about there. Kilmar Abrego Garcia is the Salvadoran national who was removed wrongfully—and admittedly in administrative error by the administration—to that same maximum security prison in El Salvador. And the Supreme Court ruled that the administration must facilitate Abrego Garcia’s return. They are not doing that. They are simply thumbing their nose at the court’s ruling. I want to ask you this question though. Stephen Miller went out there and he said over and over and over that the court actually sided with them on the Abrego Garcia case. This was a lie. But does that in itself affect the way the court looks at this? Do some of the justices, the conservative justices who aren’t just completely gone, look at that and say to themselves, Well, they’re really just giving us the middle finger. Stephen Miller is lying to Trump and lying to the public about what we said about this case as they defy us? Do they look at all that, and does it affect them?

Litman: I think it does. I think the justices care deeply about their own authority. They are accustomed to being the final say and have their decisions respected. To have a decision so wildly mischaracterized, have the administration basically insist they need not do diddly squat that the Supreme Court suggested they did … The Supreme Court gave them, let’s be clear, a lot of wiggle room and a lot of room to maneuver in which they could argue like, Yeah, we tried to facilitate his release, but we just couldn’t do it. But facilitate doesn’t mean do nothing. And yet the administration has been quite clear that that’s what their position is. So I think the Supreme Court’s commitment to judicial supremacy, and the idea that they get to decide these matters, is absolutely going to be rubbed the wrong way by all of the things Stephen Miller and all of the other Trumpers are doing.