MELISSA MURRAY (HOST): Rand Paul is not persuaded, but Speaker Johnson says he wants this bill passed in as close to its current form as possible. What are the odds that that actually happens, Angelo?

ANGELO CARUSONE (PRESIDENT, MEDIA MATTERS FOR AMERICA): I mean, look, I think one of the ways to assess those odds is to look at what’s happening where the real power is in the Republican Party, and that is their larger right-wing media. I mean, they have narrative dominance. That’s where they — that is where they build and organize power. That is how they maintain it. That is the real whip when it comes to counting votes. And if you look at how the right-wing media is handling this, they’re enthusiastic about the bill. There isn’t really any discussion or lamenting about the effects on Medicaid. Yeah, they accept the fact that it’s going to add some money to the deficit, but they’re largely bought in on this idea that somehow this legislation is going to lead to this, this bounty of riches at some point that will easily offset any of the debts and costs and deficits. And I think that’s the real tell. The only one out there really driving any, you know, warning signs that I think has any legs is Bannon, who’s really reminding the rest of MAGA and Trump’s world that they really need to be careful and tread lightly when it comes to Medicaid, given how many of Trump’s supporters are actually on it. So when this comes into pass, this could actually hurt them politically. So, what do I honestly think the odds are right now? They’re in favor of the bill passing in as close to form as possible. And I think the fact that you have to point to Rand Paul as the principal person opposing this, who’s been opposed to a bunch of other things, and it hasn’t really been reflective of where the rest of the party is is a really big tell. They might get some sandpaper on the edges but at the end of the day, they’ve demonstrated that Trump is, you know, that they capitulate to Trump and give him what he wants. I don’t see why this would be any different. They’ve already abdicated their role and responsibility as a separate branch of government.

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MURRAY: Angelo, Susan is echoing the words of former Chicago mayor and Obama’s first White House chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel. Emanuel wrote a column saying that this bill should be understood by the public in just one phrase, quote, “Tax cuts for the wealthy, health care cuts for the many.” Is that a message that we will be seeing going forward? And will it have the kind of impact that Susan predicts?

CARUSONE: So, I think there’s a keyword in that quote that, you know, it’s not that — that proceeds what he actually delivers as the message, which is that it has to be understood by all. And, in order to understand it, you have to hear it first and the thing to just keep in mind here is the landscape — the information landscape is so incredibly and deeply lopsided. If you just aggregate the top online programs where people get information, you look at where people are subscribed to, so the top 500 or so, 82% of the audience is subscribed to right-leaning online shows. That’s a 4-to-1 advantage. I mean, that is incredible. And that’s the landscape that Democrats — and even if they have that perfect message, that good message, and that’s a solid message. Even that message still has to — has to be distributed and spread and heard and connected. And that’s the real question here is not whether or not Democrats can rally around a specific message, but can they distribute it and saturate it sufficiently in a landscape that is so incredibly uneven? And I think that’s the real tell. Otherwise, we’re going to see what’s happened time and time and again, that Donald Trump will do sort of — and the right-wing media around them — will do sort of a Rumpelstiltskin effect and will take the harms, the bad things that happen, these consequences, and they will spin it into something positive or some string to get his people to move to the next thing. And the last like footnote is that we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that we are in a moment right now where they are transitioning to something deeply anti-democratic, small “d.” And maybe they don’t care about the traditional rules of politics because they plan on consistently trying to jam things through that they’re not really interested in getting a majority, they’re interested in might makes right and force of will.